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Our democracy's last gasp

From here.

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You will be going to the polls on Tuesday for far more than what you think. You think that this "Change" advocated by Obama for years is change that will benefit you. In some ways, you could be right. If you are willing to have someone buy your vote with benefits, perhaps you have come to the right place.

But benefits are not what they are made out to be. This is a man who prefers to provide entitlements to blacks, and whose view of balance is one that tilts in favor of one race above all others. You claim he has never said this. But he has. Repeatedly. Through his Philadelphia speech and elsewhere. Through his private meeting with minorities allegedly representing the Black Liberation theology. And through his life, which promoted Black Liberation theology until he left Reverend Wright's church, a church he had his wife and children attend and which he attended for twenty years or so.

The facts remain generally obfuscated or totally avoided through lies exposed that none of you care about. His lie that he never heard Wright rant against the US. His wife's view, supported by him, that she was properly not proud of America until it began to appear that Obama could win obfuscated with Obama-like comments that seem to be what they are not. His lies about Ayres, a relationship he has never explained other than to lie about its extent.

We face a momentous situation today. Our children are being indoctrinated in our schools about politics. Grade school children told about matters that belong in the home, such as who is the better candidate. High schools busing their children to voting booths, making videos favoring one candidate, studying one candidate.

I found myself at a crossroads months ago. Seeing what had been said and the use of race during Obama's campaign, watching the "Democratic" Party wrest control or lose control over its candidacy, realizing that majority votes were not what Obama was seeking, I found myself rehashing the claims of conservatives that the media was biased. Looking at the evidence of what was happening. And realizing that our ranting loons of the far right were more sane than I thought. That Reverend Wright and Bill Ayres and Bernadette Dohrn do matter.

That Ayres is lauded as a person to follow educationally, with prominent people speaking on his behalf and lauding him, should make you hesitate. For the backbone of our country, our youth, is being captured by ideologues who used to advocate violent overthrow of our government. They now are using time-tested methods in indoctrinating our youth and you, the voting public.

Their education is two-pronged.

First, they are exploding in schools, with their advocates used to "community" organizing wresting control over message. They are writing the textbooks, making certain that contrary views are not heard, and squashing dissent. The textbooks that make no mention of McCain in an election year. The teachers who have their students doing pro-Obama videos and then allowing them to be posted on UTube. Assisted by sites in which students feel they must belong, they are providing a veritable smorgasbord of views promoting suppression and conformity that will reap benefits into at least a generation unable to hear or see anything different.

Second, they are in our media, pouncing on everything they do not believe in and promoting their candidate and his deceptions. Obama's ability to avoid tough questions about himself, his plans and his views is staged by the media. And enforced by Obama and his media hooligans who target anyone with the temerity to speak fact. People like Corsi, against whom Unfit for Publication was a lie-filled lawyer defense based on a media without conscience to whom questions were asked or answers offered that Corsi was a liar and his book a complete lie. Nothing more untruthful was ever stated in this election.

But you will rely on Unfit for Publication as you rely on every small change and huge lie told to you, without analysis and with those who are designed to target those who dare to speak the truth. The truth and the questions that should make this election a landslide for McCain.

You turn around and say that this is all the fault of Republicans, but all of you mean Bush. You know that our legislature is dominated by Democrats, whose ways have move you toward bankruptcy. Exactly where Obama hopes you end up. For the good of his new New Deal. For his stupid, uneducated approach to our economy which will send us into depression. For Obama, an untested man who has squashed his opponents like that pumpkin from which you tore out innards and made it into a mask just days ago.

There are no brave people left. My daughter came back the other day in astonishment, telling me that one block where she went was filled with McCain signs. Our block has no signs at all.

Are we all so scared of saying who we are for that we hide in the anonymity of the private vote? Not so for you who are union people if you intend to keep working. You will soon have no choice, if you elect Obama. You will be known and subject to horrible harassment, the type of harassment that occurred repeatedly in this election against anyone speaking out against Obama. The public votes required by the Democrats will end any semblance of fairness in union activities. The leaders will be permanent, your vote known, and your job dependent on who you support. Much like Hoffa's unions, you will be subject to any request and demand, which fills union coffers while giving you less and less.

There are many things we can write about on the eve of this election.

But the most important by far is presaged by the public vote. The masses of people moved to vote, whether legal or not, in order to have their will done. The way in which this election has been conducted and will be conducted. The indoctrination of the spirit and soul of this country. By a will unseen on this world since Hitler.

There are many parallels with Hitler and Stalin and Lenin and Mao. You need be concerned only with one.

Once dissent ends, once issues, ideas and facts are not tested, the organ of information is the State. And the State in each of these settings is the person at the top. Lenin, Stalin, Hitler and Mao took the stage and silenced the media. They controlled the facts. They were able to refuse publication of facts like Obama's aunt illegally in the US even after deportation, willing printing and saying that he just did not know she was here.

And you believe this. Each of you. Who are part of the indoctrination. Who work hard to make certain that any fact not useful to the State is simply distorted or completely changed.

There is no doubt but that the most essential part of our government is you, the people. That Rush Limbaugh, as hated as he used to be to me, is someone we need to cherish and ensure continues. For without him, and the even more disgusting Gordon Liddy, we would be without some essential dissent. Like the dissent of the black music and Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young, we all need every voice. Even Bill Ayres and Bernadette Dohrn.

But we will see what happens as the polls close and what is said by the massive fraud already reported in various states. Are we lemmings? Do we want a man whose very birthplace is in question, who might not be even qualified for office, permitted to lead this country because a citizen does not have standing to challenge his credentials? What other rights are going to be foreclosed by Obama, who will wield the FISA rights he voted for and his planned national police force in order to create his brave new world?

Perhaps the title of this article is too extreme. Perhaps this is all nonsense, and Obama really believes in equality for all, will govern without preference, and will invite everyone to participate. Perhaps he will be in favor of textbooks teaching what creationism is. Perhaps he will consider all sides of the abortion issue.

There is nothing to indicate this in his record, and his record is so hidden that we know little about the true Obama.

It is just that what we have seen could easily move us toward totalitarianism and away from democracy. Like Ayres wanted. Like his wife wanted. And like Rezko wanted. The supporter and friend with whom Obama had a twelve or more year relationship. A man who was convicted of peddling influence in corrupt ways. A man who, like ACORN, was more interested in getting the votes than in how he got them. ACORN, an organization that is being sued under the Ohio Racketeering Influenced and Corrupt Practices Act as an illegal organization acting fraudulently with our votes in order to get the man who pays them and who is paid back through votes for him.

The words of the ACORN complaint are as follows:

Beginning no later than 2003, and continuing until the present day, Defendant ACORN has engaged, by and through its agents, in a scheme to obtain, prepare and file fraudulent voter registrations throughout the state of Ohio by means of numerous violations of R. C. 2913.31(A)(l), R.C. 2913 .31(A)(2), and R.C, 2913.3 I (A)(3) ("Forgery" and "Uttering Forged Documents"); R.C. 2913.42(A)(l) and R.C. 2913.42(A)(2) ("Tampering with Writings and Records" and "Uttering Tampered Writings or Records") with a purpose to, or with reckless disregard as to whether it will, inter alia, injure or threaten to injure Plaintiffs and other similarly situated citizens by diluting and/or threatening to dilute their vote, by depriving or threatening to deprive them of their rights to participate in an honest and effective election process, by impairing and/or threatening to impair Plaintiffs' rights to have government officials chosen and other ballot measures approved or disapproved by means of a fair and accurate election process.

There are many of you who claim, without reading anything, that voter suppression is rampant, that wanting photo IDs is a way to stop democracy, and even (ala Alan Colmes) that voter fraud is less important than voter suppression. Voter suppression is a myth. Here are the facts of voter fraud (which some claim is "just registration fraud" as if this is perfectly acceptable) as outlined in the Ohio complaint. And remember that so many of you have said that this is just a Republican effort to suppress the vote. And that many more may put their twist on these facts. Remember also that these are just the tip of the iceberg. Mickey Mouse easy to find. Media lies. Belittle this huge fraud and what is left for fair elections? Democracy's last gasp is to reject these efforts for the Democrats to buy this election and vote against your party for the good of democracy.

The Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, or ACORN, has turned in at least 65,000 cards to the Cuyahoga County Board of Elections in the last year. At an October 8, 2008 Cuyahoga County Board of Elections hearing related to ACORN voter fraud, two Ohio voters, including Christopher Barkley, claimed that they were hounded by the community-activist group ACORN to register to vote several times, even though they made it clear they'd already signed up. Barkley estimated he'd registered to vote "10 to 15" times after canvassers for ACORN relentlessly pursued him and others. "I kept getting approached by folks who asked me to register," Barkley said. "They'd ask me if I was registered. I'd say yes, and they'd ask me to do it [register] again. Some of them were getting paid to collect names. That was their sob story, and 1 bought it," he said. Another witness subpoenaed to testify at the same October 8, 2008 hearing, Lateala Goins, 21, stated "[y]ou can tell them you're registered as many times as you want - they do not care, ... they will follow you to the buses, they will follow you home, it does not matter." She added that she never put down an address on any of the registration forms, just her name. ACORN admitted to the Cuyahoga County Board of Elections that the group engages in fraudulent voter registration activity. Ohio ACORN officials "blamed the elections board for not scrutinizing ACORN's suspicious cards," claiming the group "can't be expected to catch everything." Local representatives of the organization told Cuyahoga board members that they don't have the resources to identify fraudulent cards turned in by paid canvassers. ACORN bribed and/or pressured Freddie Johnson of Cleveland to register to vote 72 times. Johnson filled out 72 separate voter- registration cards over an 18-month period at the behest of ACORN. Johnson stated "[s]ometimes, they come up and bribe me with a cigarette, or they'll give me a dollar to sign up, ... The ACORN people are everywhere, looking to sign people up. I tell them I am already registered. The girl said, 'You are?' I say, 'Yup,' and then they say, 'Can you just sign up again?'" He'd collected 10 to 20 cigarettes and anywhere from $10 to $15, he said. In Columbus, Ohio, several Columbus citizens have acknowledged to reporter Shelby Holliday, on video tape, that ACORN's voter registration efforts include harassing and begging voters to register more than once, even when the voter tells the ACORN's agent that he or she is already registered, and offering favors in exchange for voting. In Greene County, Ohio ACORN's fraudulent registration efforts have induced involvement from the County Sherriff and Prosecutor. On May 8, 2007, a Reynoldsburg, Ohio (Franklin County) man was indicted for voting twice in the November election .... [An attorney] said the man, a Mr Gilbert was registered in both counties by ACORN, the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, a nonprofit agency that has come under fire in 12 states for voter fraud. On or about September 19,2006, the mother of a 16-year-old has told the Summit County elections board that her daughter was registered to vote, just two months after a 10-year-old boy was summoned for jury duty because he was on the county's voter rolls. The person who filed the voter registration application was Prentice McNary of Akron, a circulator paid by Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, or ACORN, according to Board of Elections Director Bryan Williams. On or about September I, 2006, Franklin County Elections Board staffers questioned the validity of hundreds of names on registration forms and petitions for a proposed constitutional amendment to boost Ohio's minimum wage. Most of the disputed names came from lists provided by paid solicitors working for ACORN, the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now. On or about August II, 2006, and according to Matt Damschroder, director of the Franklin County Board of Elections, 500 voter registration cards, all collected between March and July of2006 by ACORN, were turned over to County Prosecutor Ron O'Brien to determine if a crime had been committed. Between Fall 2003 and June 2004, ACORN submitted approximately 23,000 voter registration cards in Franklin County, Ohio. The Franklin County Board of Elections discovered that voter registration cards submitted by ACORN included cards for people who did not exist. Franklin County Board of Elections Director Matthew Damschroeder characterized many of the registrations as "blatantly false," while the manager of Franklin County Voter Services confirmed that the submission of false voter registration forms has resulted in the issuance of voter identification cards that could have been used, and can be used in the future, to cast fraudulent votes in the November 2004, November 2006, and November 2008 elections. On or near June 3, 2004, two ACORN agents submitted fraudulent voter registration cards forms to the Franklin County Board of Elections. On or about October 8, 2004 ACORN submitted 19 false voter registration cards to the Franklin County Board of Elections, including cards identifying people who did not exist. On or about October 8, 2004 ACORN submitted 19 voter registrations to the Hamilton County Board of Elections for people who could not be located by the sheriffs department after similar handwriting and false addresses raised the suspicions of elections workers. These registration cards were fraudulent and contained forged signatures. On or about September 7, 2004, ACORN employee andlor agent Kevin Eugene Dooley submitted a fraudulent voter registration card to the Franklin County Board of Elections that resulted in Mr. Dooley being charged with a felony offense for forging the voter registration card in question. In September 22, 2004, the Ohio Bureau of Criminal Identification and Investigation confirmed that it was investigating over 800 fraudulent voter registration cards submitted in Summit County. Numerous, perhaps thousands, of fraudulent voter registration cards have been submitted in Ohio by Defendant ACORN. (Out-of-State Predicate Acts) On October 7, 2008, Nevada state authorities representing the Nevada Secretary of State Nevada Attorney General seized records and computers from ACORN's Las Vegas office, after fielding complaints of voter fraud Bob Walsh. spokesman for the Nevada secretary of state's office, told FOXNews.com the raid was prompted by ongoing complaints about "endless" registration information being submitted by the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, also called ACORN. The group was submitting the information through a voter sign-up drive known as Project Vote. "Some of them used nonexistent names, some of them used false addresses and some of them were duplicates of previously filed applications," Walsh said, describing the complaints, which largely came from the registrar in Clark County, Nevada. Secretary of State Ross Miller said the fraudulent registrations included forms for the starting lineup of the Dallas Cowboys football team. Mr. Miller likened ACORN to a "bank robber," while another Nevada official indicated that ACORN made a "pathetic attempt at quality control." On or about October 3, 2008, in Crown Point Indiana, ACORN submitted a pile of suspected fraudulent voter registration applications to Lake County election officials, said. Lake County election workers discovered dozens of ACORN-delivered registration forms they believe contain inaccurate voter information, including one in which a dead man from Gary was listed as the applicant. None of those applications was processed. Of the 5,000 voter registrations, at least half have been found to be fraudulent, registered to dead people, or feature signatures that all look exactly the same. Sally Lasota, a member of the Democrat party, and Director of County Elections Board stated, with respect to ACORN's submission, "it is fraud," and further noted that, "due to the volume of ACORN submissions, it amounts to less time to review all registrations." In 2003, ACORN employees in Missouri turned in more than a thousand suspicious voter registration cards, with one witness indicating that a card was turned in under the name of her infant. Following Colorado's 2004 election, two ex-ACORN employees were convicted of perjury for submitting false voter registration forms; one ex-ACORN employee admitted to registering her friends 40 times. In 2004, police arrested a former ACORN employee who had more than 300 completed voter registration cards in the trunk of his car, many of which had not been turned in within the legal time limit. In 2005, Virginia authorities found that, of a sample of Project Vote-gathered registrations, 83% were rejected for using false or questionable information. In 2007, King County, Washington officials announced the indictment of seven workers ACORN had hired to register voters, calling the episode the "worst case of voter registration fraud in the history of the state." At least three of those individuals have pleaded guilty and ACORN was forced to pay a $25,000 settlement. King County concluded that it "may have valid administrative, civil, and criminal cause of actions against ACORN stemming from ACORN's actions during a voter registration operation in King County," but agreed to forebear from prosecution. The settlement agreement limited ACORN activities, and imposed management and quality control mandates on ACORN. In 2006, ACORN also committed what Washington Secretary of State Sam Reed called the "worse case of election fraud" in the state's history. In the case, ACORN submitted just over 1,800 new voter registration forms, and all but six of the 1,800 names were fake. In April 2008, federal prosecutors announced guilty pleas for federal election fraud by eight former ACORN employees in Missouri, based on their activities in the 2006 election. They submitted false addresses and names, as well as forged signatures. At least one former ACORN employee was sentenced to 15 months in prison. In 2008 alone, ACORN's activities have prompted calls for investigations in nearly a dozen states: Louisiana, Pennsylvania, Connecticut, New Mexico, Texas, Nevada, Ohio, Wisconsin, Michigan and North Carolina, with new investigations developing regularly. In June, 2008, the New York Times reported that "Louisiana Election officials have expressed concern that large numbers of people who believe they are registered will show up at the polls in November, only to find that they cannot vote because their application had been improperly submitted." An ACORN spokesman said that it's typical for 30 percent of their cards to be duplicates or incomplete. That is a troublingly high rate of error. In July, 2008, Pennsylvania officials charged a former ACORN employee with 19 counts of perjury, making false statements, forgery and identity theft in connection with the voter registration forms in connection with more than 100 suspect cards. In August, 2008, the Connecticut Post reported that state officials began asking for an investigation into ACORN's registration activities, in which there were errors in 20 percent of the thousands of registration forms the group turned in. Referencing the large amount of incomplete, incorrect, or improperly filed [forms], one registrar said, "Some of my staff has been here for 15 years and when they see ACORN come in, they start crying." In August, 200S, ACORN was forced to announce that it would begin running background checks on its signature gatherers in New Mexico after it was learned that nine employees had felony criminal records ranging from forgery to identity theft to child rape. It is unclear how many of the thousands of voter registration cards containing personal information were handled by the nine felons. Bernalillo County officials are investigating 1,100 possibly fraudulent cards. In one case, a series of nine cards appear to have been filled out using the phone book. ACORN's voter registration fraud in New Mexico has been a recurring theme since 2003, including its 2004 attempt to register a 13-year-old boy. In 2005 the organizations employees were accused of filing as many as 3,000 false signatures on a ballot initiative. In Texas, where ACORN's affiliate, Citizens Services Inc., has provided contract work on behalf of Senator Barack Obama's presidential campaign, the Houston Chronicle reported on August 17, 2008 that "About 40 percent of the 27,000 registration cards gathered by ACORN from January through July have been rejected or placed in limbo pending the gathering of more information, according to the county" while "about 6,600 were filled out by people already registered, and many others contained insufficient information." Nevada and federal officials announced in August that they would form a task force to aggressively pursue allegations of election fraud, with the Las Vegas Review-Journal specifically noting "Clark County officials have said they suspect fraud is occurring in the thousands of voter registrations being submitted by [ACORN]." In Wisconsin, ACORN has allegedly offered to bribe citizens with pre-paid gasoline cards or restaurant gift cards to induce them to register. Further voter registration problems include apparently falsified drivers license numbers, Social Security numbers, and similar personal information. By the end of August, 2008, Milwaukee's Election Commission Executive Director had referred over 49 individuals to prosecutors for suspected voter registration fraud - of them, 37 were ACORN employees. An August 20 report from the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel noted that of the 35 ACORN employees referred for investigation, seventeen apparently filled out voter applications and then signed the cards themselves. That involved two to four cards in each case; twelve submitted cards for individuals who later told ACORN they never filled out an application (that involved one card in each case); one submitted a card for a dead voter, which was the second such case; a Voters Project worker previously submitted a card for a deceased voter; one was apparently making up driver's license numbers for an unknown number of voters; one submitted about a half-dozen applications for already-registered voters; and one woman reportedly complained that a voter registration card was submitted for her husband, who had been dead for 10 years. In Michigan, A Secretary of State spokesperson recently (Summer-Fall, 2008) said "There appears to be a sizeable number of duplicate and fraudulent applications ... and it appears to be widespread." In Pontiac, Michigan, the clerk's office has found numerous applications filed for a given name. In Oak Park, Michigan, the clerk has been seeing "lots of duplication" from ACORN in recent months. Another official from the Michigan Secretary of State's office has acknowledged that because ACORN pays their workers per voter application collected, there is an incentive for fraud, and that ACORN tends to hold applications, many of which are false and duplicate, for months and dump them on our election officials at the registration deadline. In September, 2008, Durham County, North Carolina's elections officials have asked for an investigation of dozens of cards submitted by ACORN. One was for a fourteen-year old boy.

Where is Jimmy Carter, who used properly to claim that our voting systems are worse than most third world country systems? Lying with the rest of the Democrats too interested in winning that they are willing to lie, cheat and steal an election.

Democracy's last gasp? I see that as highly likely.

Depression because of a man who has no financial background but who has been in the wealthiest part of American society for a decade or more? I see this as an almost certainty.

So what if I am proved wrong as to results. You think that this vote is worth that gamble? You think that the ends justify the means? You think that lying is more important than the truth?

I clearly do not.

  • 11 Votes
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6.4
{"commentId":3833356,"authorDomain":"daytoncple"}

More desperate racist BS....

{"commentId":3833356,"threadId":"406747","contentId":"2064241","authorDomain":"daytoncple"}
  • 9 votes
Reply#1 - Sun Nov 2, 2008 10:26 AM EST
{"commentId":3833549,"authorDomain":"tylerme721"}

Center seemed to fall far right this time, daytoncple gave the summary...

Black Liberation theology. And through his life, which promoted Black Liberation theology until he left Reverend Wright's church, a church he had his wife and children attend and which he attended for twenty years or so.

'tho the article is much too long for a line by line rebutt...let me just ask:

"Did any Whites leave their church when pastors preached vile anger against the Supreme Court after the desegregation order?

"Did any Whites leave their church when pastors preached KKK "Hangings" were ok?

"Did any Whites leave their church when pastors preached by calling "The Coloreds" as "Pickaninnys" "Moolies" and the n-word was used a lot?

Did any Whites leave their church when pastors preached that The Supreme Court, and President Kennedy then Johnson should be 'shot?'

Did any Whites leave their church when pastors preached  that they would do violence and stop the inter-marriages or "Soiling of our pure White Girls?"

There are other vile attacks against the Government of the United States of America that i heard as a child....but i never saw anyone leave, even when that Church was bombed with the 5 young girls killed by this same hatred expressed in your article.

{"commentId":3833549,"threadId":"406747","contentId":"2064241","authorDomain":"tylerme721"}
  • 5 votes
#1.1 - Sun Nov 2, 2008 10:43 AM EST
Reply
{"commentId":3833461,"authorDomain":"stevencwatts"}

Well, it's been an amusing election season with you, PC, and it's almost drawing to a close. If I could offer some constructive criticism...

When the 2012 election comes, or whenever you feel you have to stand up and fight for something political, take a more measured approach. Be calm and collected. Each of your articles have been hyperbolic and, forgive me for saying so, a bit hysterical. This basically solidifies anyone reading your articles. Those that agree with you get cemented into it, and those that disagree do too.

At this point, you've created such a reputation for yourself that you're not making any difference. Those who know your reputation will agree vehemontly, or brush you off. There's no middle ground, because you've displayed no middle ground. This is why commentators like Sean Hannity only really catch the ears of Republicans, and Keith Olbermann only really catch the ears of Democrats. It solidifies the base, sure, but does it really make a difference past that?

Try to be less Sean Hannity and more Brian Williams next time. I guarantee you'll make more of an impact.

{"commentId":3833461,"threadId":"406747","contentId":"2064241","authorDomain":"stevencwatts"}
  • 11 votes
Reply#2 - Sun Nov 2, 2008 10:36 AM EST
{"commentId":3833617,"authorDomain":"tylerme721"}

Steve, i wanted to brush this article off but then a McCain Ad came on here in Virginia on Msnbc that attacked Obama for Rev. Wright ....so...that's the retort. Never understood why authors don't get the finesse, nuance, required to 'sway' a viewpoint.

{"commentId":3833617,"threadId":"406747","contentId":"2064241","authorDomain":"tylerme721"}
  • 1 vote
#2.1 - Sun Nov 2, 2008 10:49 AM EST
{"commentId":3833716,"authorDomain":"politicalcenter"}

Steve - Nothing in your response says anything about any points in the article.  I am a forty year Democrat, not Sean Hannity.  And I am voting against Obama because of risks that are certainties in my own mind.  In the end, your views are not that the middle is necessary. Your views are that "balance" is required.  And that must be not what I believe, but what the public wants.

There is no evidence of Obama or at this point the Democrats which gives me any different view of where we are headed.  You know what he plans with his "police force?" You disagree with the facts in the Ohio complaint?  You feel that the ends justify the means?

Keith Olberman is not alone.  He has his own press corps which has turned many in the press into zombies filled with lies.

When you read and review the facts in Corsi's book and Obama's defense of that book, read and review the facts in The Case Against Barack Obama, reviewed the statutes he voted for and against, watched videos and read the available texts of the June 2007 riot speech in Virginia and the October 2, 2008 national police force speech in Colorado, and read everything written by Obama currently available, then I will believe that you have come to this election with an unbiased eye toward the truth and what is possible under an Obama administration.

Unlike you, I know someone from Obama's family, have seen what they are capable of doing, and watched Michelle Obama say she would have liked to scratch Bill Clinton's eyes out.  You think these are normal for our First Lady, and welcome the personna of this person into the White House.  I do not.

In the end, is your type of "democracy" is one that is steeped in a tradition of not challenging the truth, not standing up and being counted? Could you ever vote for a Republican?  Why?  Because they are all George Bush?

{"commentId":3833716,"threadId":"406747","contentId":"2064241","authorDomain":"politicalcenter"}
  • 3 votes
#2.2 - Sun Nov 2, 2008 10:57 AM EST
{"commentId":3834051,"authorDomain":"stevencwatts"}

That's a whole bucketful of assumptions about me there, PC. I'm a registered Republican, and I did vote for George Bush. As for not addressing the points in your article, I find them a bit too silly to bother addressing. I just figured I'd say a friendly, constructive goodbye before your candidate loses and you (I assume) stop attending Newsvine. Best of luck to you.

{"commentId":3834051,"threadId":"406747","contentId":"2064241","authorDomain":"stevencwatts"}
  • 7 votes
#2.3 - Sun Nov 2, 2008 11:26 AM EST
Reply
{"commentId":3833577,"authorDomain":"politicalcenter"}

The facts are before us.  But even if the AP wrote an article about Obama's aunt, the media ensures that Obama's claim not to have been aware of her illegal status and evasion of the law is not questioned.  Not investigated.

Our days are numbered.  How many of you have failed to speak out or even worse continued to try suppression and distortion of information as the means necessary for your Obama ends?

{"commentId":3833577,"threadId":"406747","contentId":"2064241","authorDomain":"politicalcenter"}
  • 2 votes
Reply#3 - Sun Nov 2, 2008 10:46 AM EST
{"commentId":3833777,"authorDomain":"tylerme721"}

The facts are before us.

This list is to just balance the facts of discussion and bounce your question back-at-cha McCain & Palin forgot that as Chairman, McCain  gave Kahlidi and his PLO cohorts $486,000.00 or that McCain also has a "Close" relationship with David Ifshin, who denounced America on Radio Hanoi and was one of the most prominent of Vietnam-era student radicals. Two years ago, speaking at Columbia College, McCain affectionately and warmly recalled his relationship with Ifshin.

Pol-center you speak of distortion But the media never reported that McCain also sat on the board of  an ultra radical group founded by an Iran Contra figure Maj. General John K. Singlaub. (The U.S Council for World Freedom in 1981) or that his VP, 
Palin's husband, Todd, belong to a group advocating Alaska's secession from the United States, an act of Treason to overthrow the Government. Or on Character issue-
McCain applied for marriage license with his second wife while still married to first wife then  left #1 wife because of her health condition. Palin's church entertains witchcraft and Voo-doo Preachers, she stays, duh, all whites stayed through KKK Preachers, hangings, worse name calling, denegration of the Supreme Court for '54 desegregation decision (a bunch of white Rev. Wrights Never Reported By The 4th Estate) 

Since you say:How many of you have failed to speak out or even worse continued to try suppression and distortion of information

McCain agressively fought for deregulation of his close friend, (Charles) Keating's Savings and Loan, causing the infamous Keating-5 congressional scandal. Some think of that S & L crisis as a direct fore-runner to our current bank crisis.

Last, there is McCain's expressed love for a Real Convicted Domestic Terrorist - radio-host,  G.Gordon Libby Why not call it "A Wash" ...Don't you have associations that you won't take to visit Grandma? Humans have a lot of friends that are gay, that are addicts, some even went to meetings where real felons were there...

Now i've done what you asked and not suppressed the truth about John McCain.

{"commentId":3833777,"threadId":"406747","contentId":"2064241","authorDomain":"tylerme721"}
  • 5 votes
#3.1 - Sun Nov 2, 2008 11:03 AM EST
{"commentId":3834259,"authorDomain":"politicalcenter"}

McCain did not give the money to anyone.  An organization he was a part of did.  And that was given to the PLO in order to ensure fair elections, something most Obama supporters claim they want.

The rest of this is pure nonsense.  You want to claim Liddy represents McCain?  Show us one time when this occurred.  He never has.

Liddy has done some things that were appropriate, but as I say he is dispicable.  He has paid his dues in prison.  End of that story.

By the way, are there any links to what you say?

{"commentId":3834259,"threadId":"406747","contentId":"2064241","authorDomain":"politicalcenter"}
  • 3 votes
#3.2 - Sun Nov 2, 2008 11:45 AM EST
{"commentId":3834546,"authorDomain":"DirkM"}

McCain did not give the money to anyone.  An organization he was a part of did.

You mean McCain is being taken to task for the actions of an organization he was a part of?  You mean kind of like you take Obama to task for the actions of ACORN because he was a part of ACORN decades ago?  You are the epitome of hypocrisy.

You want to claim Liddy represents McCain?

Ummm . . . McCain admitted that Liddy held a fundraiser for him in his house.  Kind of like you accuse Ayers of doing for Obama.  You stated that meant Obama and Ayers were close political allies and that should taint Obama's record.  Why do you not hold McCain to the same standards?  Perhaps you are just blinded by bias?

{"commentId":3834546,"threadId":"406747","contentId":"2064241","authorDomain":"DirkM"}
  • 5 votes
#3.3 - Sun Nov 2, 2008 12:11 PM EST
Reply
{"commentId":3833679,"authorDomain":"DirkM"}

Our democracy's last gasp

More like your desperate last attempt to spread fear and smear.  Throw enough crap at that wall and hope some of it sticks.  No one has paid any heed to your propaganda for months now, but you think this bit of inflammatory tripe will change someone's opinion?  I think not.

Any sane rational person will read through your unsupported allegations and see this article for what it really is, a lame attempt to play on people's basest fears and racism.

Just one line is all it takes to see through you:

There are many parallels with Hitler and Stalin and Lenin and Mao.

In one breath, you compare Obama to nazis, socialists, communists, and fascists.  Not only is this unbelievably inflammatory, it shows absolutely no understanding of history or the true policies of these people.  And no real understanding of Obama either.  Obama is an american and a liberal.  He is not a nazi.  He is not a commie.  He is not a socialist.  He is an american.  He is a christian.  And he will be our next president, despite your rantings.

{"commentId":3833679,"threadId":"406747","contentId":"2064241","authorDomain":"DirkM"}
  • 9 votes
Reply#4 - Sun Nov 2, 2008 10:54 AM EST
{"commentId":3834283,"authorDomain":"politicalcenter"}

A totalitarian, not a Nazi or any of the other parties and their views.  That is a difference you probably do not understand.

By the way, since when have you shown any free speech beliefs?  When you said the First Amendment does not protect free speech, or some other time?

{"commentId":3834283,"threadId":"406747","contentId":"2064241","authorDomain":"politicalcenter"}
  • 2 votes
#4.1 - Sun Nov 2, 2008 11:46 AM EST
{"commentId":3834435,"authorDomain":"thecivicvoice"}

PC, if you believed in free speech, you wouldn't delete dissenting opinions, as you have in the past.

{"commentId":3834435,"threadId":"406747","contentId":"2064241","authorDomain":"thecivicvoice"}
  • 4 votes
#4.2 - Sun Nov 2, 2008 12:01 PM EST
{"commentId":3834462,"authorDomain":"politicalcenter"}

CA - Out of what are likely now to be more than 10,000 comments in my lifetime on the Vine, I probably have deleted about 10.  If yours are in the majority, then there were expressed reasons for everyone to see.  I do not delete generally without comments about why.  Most have not been revived, and those that have were done so wrongly in my view.

{"commentId":3834462,"threadId":"406747","contentId":"2064241","authorDomain":"politicalcenter"}
  • 1 vote
#4.3 - Sun Nov 2, 2008 12:03 PM EST
{"commentId":3834544,"authorDomain":"thecivicvoice"}

There you go again, twisting the facts. You deleted ONE of my comments (one too many if you ask me), for sarcasm, which is not against the Code of Honor. I did not appeal, but if I had, it would have been restored. Then you had the gall to tell me to rewrite the comment to your liking. Laughable. And I also witnessed you delete one of Dirk's comments, which was totally in bounds. You've started this recently, because you are so frustrated with the fact that no one is buying your propaganda. Many of your articles trickle down the vine these days, largely unread.

{"commentId":3834544,"threadId":"406747","contentId":"2064241","authorDomain":"thecivicvoice"}
  • 4 votes
#4.4 - Sun Nov 2, 2008 12:11 PM EST
{"commentId":3834901,"authorDomain":"DirkM"}

By the way, since when have you shown any free speech beliefs?  When you said the First Amendment does not protect free speech, or some other time?

Still can't resist throwing in a lie, can you PC?  What I said (for the hundredth time) was that you have no free speech rights on other people's private property, which is the LAW and I even cited for you the Supreme Court Case that first stated this principle.  You, of course, refuse to acknowledge this plain fact and pretend to hold free speech in such high regard while deleting those comments that oppose what you say.  How hypocritical of you.

{"commentId":3834901,"threadId":"406747","contentId":"2064241","authorDomain":"DirkM"}
  • 5 votes
#4.5 - Sun Nov 2, 2008 12:44 PM EST
Reply
{"commentId":3833694,"authorDomain":"DirkM"}

Oh, I forgot to add:

Since I know it is possible that I may not see or hear from you after Tuesday, I will go ahead and say my goodbyes now.  So long, PC.  You may be one of the greatest horror fiction writers to ever grace the pages of Newsvine.  I will look forward to sparring with you under some other name next election.

{"commentId":3833694,"threadId":"406747","contentId":"2064241","authorDomain":"DirkM"}
  • 6 votes
Reply#5 - Sun Nov 2, 2008 10:55 AM EST
{"commentId":3833833,"authorDomain":"headinthegame"}

great article political center

{"commentId":3833833,"threadId":"406747","contentId":"2064241","authorDomain":"headinthegame"}
  • 4 votes
Reply#6 - Sun Nov 2, 2008 11:07 AM EST
{"commentId":3834298,"authorDomain":"politicalcenter"}

The truth will set you free.

{"commentId":3834298,"threadId":"406747","contentId":"2064241","authorDomain":"politicalcenter"}
  • 3 votes
#6.1 - Sun Nov 2, 2008 11:48 AM EST
{"commentId":3834400,"authorDomain":"thecivicvoice"}
The truth will set you free.

Well then, let me help you take those shackles off. LOL!

{"commentId":3834400,"threadId":"406747","contentId":"2064241","authorDomain":"thecivicvoice"}
  • 4 votes
#6.2 - Sun Nov 2, 2008 11:58 AM EST
{"commentId":3834456,"authorDomain":"thecivicvoice"}

By the way, if you want to be honest, admit that you are really Cliff Potter.

{"commentId":3834456,"threadId":"406747","contentId":"2064241","authorDomain":"thecivicvoice"}
  • 5 votes
#6.3 - Sun Nov 2, 2008 12:03 PM EST
Reply
{"commentId":3833942,"authorDomain":"bluecollarbytes"}

PC-"We face a momentous situation today. Our children are being indoctrinated in our schools about politics."

This has been going on for over 30 years. And over the years we've had many "momentous situations" involving the 'great issues'. I do think this one is potentially worse given Obama's clear historical radical affiliations, and his beliefs in socialism combined with his activist soul. The world welcomes a compliant American president.

We don't know how he would govern. So he might be better or worse than the average modern Democrat president. Expect intelecual decisions made after a consensus of the best youngest brightest minds, if you're an Obamaphile, or a series of serious blunders with long time negative implications thanks to a bunch of young Chicagoan pseudo-intelectualoids trying to keep up with the world, if you're just a good middleamerica common-sense patriotic American ?ha

{"commentId":3833942,"threadId":"406747","contentId":"2064241","authorDomain":"bluecollarbytes"}
  • 3 votes
Reply#7 - Sun Nov 2, 2008 11:17 AM EST
{"commentId":3834338,"authorDomain":"politicalcenter"}

PCB - The last paragraph is indeed the point of the article.  We know a lot, and what we know points in the directions I mention.  They are much less radical than most believe because of their own blindness to the facts.  Waht we have is the biggest gamble in history. How can anyone gamble with our country?  I did not with Bush, voting against him both times.  Today, the gamble is even more important, and I would never vote for Obama. Untested?  Worse than that.  A record that will send us into a depression.  Will the country continue to believe that Herbert Hoover was not responsible for what happened? That a free market is bad, and that corporations are inherently evil?

A sorry state of affairs for which we see democracy's last gasp.

Nearly a billion dollars of our (and foreigners and others' money) spent for Obama?  For what?  For who?  

{"commentId":3834338,"threadId":"406747","contentId":"2064241","authorDomain":"politicalcenter"}
  • 4 votes
#7.1 - Sun Nov 2, 2008 11:52 AM EST
Reply
{"commentId":3834159,"authorDomain":"fisico"}

Bluecollar

did you to just choose ignore metonitoo's  laundry list (3.1) of McCain's radical associations?

May I add to his list?

  Council for Defense Freedom Board (ultra right-wing, racist, anti-semitic group with ties to the Contras),  ACORN too, (we have pix),  G. Gordon Libby, Charles Keating, Raffaello Follieri, Rick Renzi, Jim Hensley, Sen. Stevens (all convicted felons), Rick Davis (FreddieMac lobbyist), Charles Black (lobbyist for dictators), Richard Quinn (white supremist), Pastor John Haggee and  Pastor Rod Parsley( bigots), Andrew McCain (resigned member of S & L), Augusto Pinochet (Chilean dictator),  William Timmons (McCain lobbyist and present transition team member) who lobbied on behalf of Saddam Hussein to ease sanctions against his regime who was also involved in  Iraqi oil contract w/2 others under indictment by the Feds for failure to file as lobbyists for foreign govt's. 

{"commentId":3834159,"threadId":"406747","contentId":"2064241","authorDomain":"fisico"}
  • 4 votes
Reply#8 - Sun Nov 2, 2008 11:35 AM EST
{"commentId":3834388,"authorDomain":"powerisknowledge"}

John Hagee: All hurricanes are acts of God, because God controls the heavens. I believe that New Orleans had a level of sin that was offensive to God, and they are — were recipients of the judgment of God for that. The newspaper carried the story in our local area that was not carried nationally that there was to be a homosexual parade there on the Monday that the Katrina came. And the promise of that parade was that it was going to reach a level of sexuality never demonstrated before in any of the other Gay Pride parades. So I believe that the judgment of God is a very real thing. http://thinkprogress.org/2008/03/11/mccain-hagee-hewitt/,

Televangelist Rod Parsley an Ohio megachurch pastor and a key McCain ally in Ohio, who Senator John McCain hailed as a spiritual adviser and  who has called upon Christians to wage a "war" against the "false religion" of Islam with the aim of destroying it. Parsley decries the "spiritual desperation" of the United States, and he blasts away at the usual suspects: activist judges, civil libertarians who advocate the separation of church and state, the homosexual "culture" ("homosexuals are anything but happy and carefree"), the "abortion industry," and the crass and profane entertainment industry. And Parsley targets another profound threat to the United States: the religion of Islam. I cannot tell you how important it is that we understand the true nature of Islam, that we see it for what it really is. In fact, I will tell you this: I do not believe our counry can truly fulfill its divine purpose until we understand our historical conflict with Islam. I know that this statement sounds extreme, but I do not shrink from its implications. The fact is that America was founded, in part, with the intention of seeing this false religion destroyed, and I believe September 11, 2001, was a generational call to arms that we can no longer ignore. http://www.motherjones.com/washington_dispatch/2008/03/john-mccain-rod-parsley-spiritual-guide.html

These are just two of the nut jobs who supported McCain who are a far greater threat then Wright because they hate anyone who isn't white and who's not heteroexual. It sounds to me that they're preaching white supremacy and that sounds like what you're supporting.

 

{"commentId":3834388,"threadId":"406747","contentId":"2064241","authorDomain":"powerisknowledge"}
  • 5 votes
Reply#9 - Sun Nov 2, 2008 11:56 AM EST
{"commentId":3834483,"authorDomain":"politicalcenter"}

Sorry, but when you get a chance to provide me with the nut jobs who support Obama, let me know.  I voted for Jesse Jackson, who had his words about Obama.  I would do so again, were he the nominee.  So much for the words of hate above.

{"commentId":3834483,"threadId":"406747","contentId":"2064241","authorDomain":"politicalcenter"}
  • 1 vote
#9.1 - Sun Nov 2, 2008 12:05 PM EST
Reply
{"commentId":3834406,"authorDomain":"SonOfLIberty2008"}

Don't get too upset, this is PC's thing.  Not like it's somebody rational.

{"commentId":3834406,"threadId":"406747","contentId":"2064241","authorDomain":"SonOfLIberty2008"}
  • 2 votes
Reply#10 - Sun Nov 2, 2008 11:59 AM EST
{"commentId":3834495,"authorDomain":"politicalcenter"}

Your comment can be deleted.  It is a personal attack.  Since this is the last article I am likely to write on Newsvine, I am leaving everything to see.  When did you join Newsvine and how many of my articles have you seen, much less read?

{"commentId":3834495,"threadId":"406747","contentId":"2064241","authorDomain":"politicalcenter"}
  • 2 votes
#10.1 - Sun Nov 2, 2008 12:06 PM EST
{"commentId":3839806,"authorDomain":"thecivicvoice"}
Since this is the last article I am likely to write on Newsvine

I'd be ecstatic, if I didn't think you'd reincarnate yourself in a few weeks. First Cliff Potter, then Political Center. What's next? By the way, are you going to delete all your articles like you did last time?

{"commentId":3839806,"threadId":"406747","contentId":"2064241","authorDomain":"thecivicvoice"}
  • 4 votes
#10.2 - Sun Nov 2, 2008 8:19 PM EST
{"commentId":3839950,"authorDomain":"Tim-E"}

I vote for delete!

{"commentId":3839950,"threadId":"406747","contentId":"2064241","authorDomain":"Tim-E"}
  • 2 votes
#10.3 - Sun Nov 2, 2008 8:33 PM EST
Reply
{"commentId":3834518,"authorDomain":"Tim-E"}

politicalcenter you are a racist. Do you live in that spot in Pennsylvania that Murtha was referring to?

.... I think I just threw up a bit in my mouth

{"commentId":3834518,"threadId":"406747","contentId":"2064241","authorDomain":"Tim-E"}
  • 4 votes
Reply#11 - Sun Nov 2, 2008 12:09 PM EST
{"commentId":3834549,"authorDomain":"slincoln-wx"}

A)  Your rant misses the point

B)  You better be careful, someone might call you racist

C) Voter suppression is only a myth to people who want the outcome to be in favor of those doing the suppression

D) The only person yet to be arrested for voter registration fraud in election cycle was a republican from California.  He was ripping up demcratic registrations and registering people illegally.  As opposed to ACORN, which turned in every registration as required by law.  I could fill out 100 registrations right now, and that is not illegal - only the last one counts.

{"commentId":3834549,"threadId":"406747","contentId":"2064241","authorDomain":"slincoln-wx"}
  • 3 votes
Reply#12 - Sun Nov 2, 2008 12:11 PM EST
{"commentId":3834886,"authorDomain":"ckainredstateusa"}

Should Obama win, would that be democracy's last gasp?

While I think it would certainly be a kick in the groin, a 2X4 up side our heads, I don't think it would be our last gasp.

Yes, potentially disgusting things could be done, especially if there is, God forbid, a president Obama working with fellow fascists Pelosi and Reid, especially if there is a supermajority in both houses of Congress.

But something worth remembering is that just as Jimmy Carter helped open the path for Ronald Reagan, and just as Bill Clinton helped open the path for the congressional turnaround in 1994, the same will happen if Obama wins and the Dems pick up more congressional clout.

As for comments like the one daytoncpie made, well, what would you expect from someone who apparently supports Obama? They lack the ability to do anything but dismiss and attack.  They bring ANYTHING to divert and distract.

Sure signs of people with nothing to say and nothing to defend. And his name, or at least it might be, is Barack Obama.

And, PC, given that you're a long-time Democrat voting against Obama is beyond grasp of those who mindlessly support him, who truly put him and the Dems' lust for power over country.

Me, I was raised a yellow-dog Dem and voted, as independent, for at least two decades, maybe a tad more, mostly for Democrats. Usually out of stupidity and ignorance, but so-called loyalty.

But, as some like Ronald Reagan said, the Democrat Party left me, not the other way around.

Face it: Under the banner of the Democrat Party -- and, no, I haven't called them "Demcoratic Party" for years because it's evident they do not understand what democratic means, especially evidenced by this election cycle -- now congregate those who would seem to tear down our Republic and its Constitution for their own ambitions.

So they cannot tolerate someone as you who woke up and now makes a reasoned choice.

BTW: They may all be surprised when Election Night rolls around. Their secular messiah's message may not have reached all those it needed to reach. And those who heard it, no  matter what they said publicly or to pollsters, may have come to their senses.

McCain-Palin '08!

{"commentId":3834886,"threadId":"406747","contentId":"2064241","authorDomain":"ckainredstateusa"}
    Reply#13 - Sun Nov 2, 2008 12:42 PM EST
    {"commentId":3834909,"authorDomain":"ckainredstateusa"}

    Should Obama win, would that be democracy's last gasp?

    While I think it would certainly be a kick in the groin, a 2X4 up side our heads, I don't think it would be our last gasp.

    Yes, potentially disgusting things could be done, especially if there is, God forbid, a president Obama working with fellow fascists Pelosi and Reid, especially if there is a supermajority in both houses of Congress.

    But something worth remembering is that just as Jimmy Carter helped open the path for Ronald Reagan, and just as Bill Clinton helped open the path for the congressional turnaround in 1994, the same will happen if Obama wins and the Dems pick up more congressional clout.

    As for comments like the one daytoncpie made, well, what would you expect from someone who apparently supports Obama? They lack the ability to do anything but dismiss and attack.  They bring ANYTHING to divert and distract.

    Sure signs of people with nothing to say and nothing to defend. And his name, or at least it might be, is Barack Obama.

    And, PC, given that you're a long-time Democrat voting against Obama is beyond grasp of those who mindlessly support him, who truly put him and the Dems' lust for power over country.

    Me, I was raised a yellow-dog Dem and voted, as independent, for at least two decades, maybe a tad more, mostly for Democrats. Usually out of stupidity and ignorance, but so-called loyalty.

    But, as some like Ronald Reagan said, the Democrat Party left me, not the other way around.

    Face it: Under the banner of the Democrat Party -- and, no, I haven't called them "Demcoratic Party" for years because it's evident they do not understand what democratic means, especially evidenced by this election cycle -- now congregate those who would seem to tear down our Republic and its Constitution for their own ambitions.

    So they cannot tolerate someone as you who woke up and now makes a reasoned choice.

    BTW: They may all be surprised when Election Night rolls around. Their secular messiah's message may not have reached all those it needed to reach. And those who heard it, no  matter what they said publicly or to pollsters, may have come to their senses.

    McCain-Palin '08!

    {"commentId":3834909,"threadId":"406747","contentId":"2064241","authorDomain":"ckainredstateusa"}
    • 1 vote
    Reply#14 - Sun Nov 2, 2008 12:45 PM EST
    {"commentId":3839781,"authorDomain":"thecivicvoice"}

    Once you pulled the fascist-card, I stopped reading. Incredibly lame.

    {"commentId":3839781,"threadId":"406747","contentId":"2064241","authorDomain":"thecivicvoice"}
    • 2 votes
    #14.1 - Sun Nov 2, 2008 8:16 PM EST
    {"commentId":3843500,"authorDomain":"politicalcenter"}

    CKA - Despite my continuing dislike for Reagan (and Obama's lauding him in Nevada, which is proving to be just another lie to get him into the White House), what you say is not only true but worrisome.  I retain many views that are "socialist" including the need for national health care like that in Canada.  Imagine how bad our healthcare system is, and that the Obama supporters could vote for him just because they feel that this is paramount today.  Then decide why we allow the prices of our drugs and the lack of quality of our healthcare, which continues to deteriorate because of foreign born and/or educated physicians entering our system in droves (I have personal experiences that would make you lose your hair), and why we must stand vigilant against foolish and expedient mistakes by physicians who could care less about most if not all patients when a national system can demonstrably deliver better healthcare to almost all of us (except of course Obama and his fellow senators), but we still support some semblence of a "free market" which is so regulated our costs are astronomical and wasteful in the scheme of things.

    So the "socialist" arguments would not work if I were for Obama.  But the facts are that his brand of things are far too radical for me economically, and I do not trust inveterate liars to tell the truth once in office.  Under Obama, I fear, he could become the next Hitler or close enough to that space that there would be little distinction.  Media suppression and misinformation is key to the death of democracy/  The "Democratic" Party used to be against these things.  No longer.

    I could go on.  But who needs to do so.  The facts, unlike those in almost everything Obama says and does, are clear.  The risks self-evident.  Our country comes first, not the risk that some will claim "racism" when we object to race-favoring.  In the end, our country needs hope in the future, not blame for the past.  That hope at present requires a divided government.  The risk of total control is too great now.   Perhaps it is too great ever. 

    Waste?  What about the almost billion dollars spent by the Democrats in this election?  What about Obama's use of those funds including sponsoring ACORN?

    {"commentId":3843500,"threadId":"406747","contentId":"2064241","authorDomain":"politicalcenter"}
      #14.2 - Mon Nov 3, 2008 6:35 AM EST
      {"commentId":3855282,"authorDomain":"kahaire"}

      politicalcenter,

      Funny, I would have described the Republican campaigns, in general, as being built on nothing but lies.  This includes McCain, and NC Senator Elizabeth Dole.

      Tell me something.  You keep arguing that Obama lies, yet you have yet to cite specific, provable examples.  Give me an example of a lie - one that has been conclusively proven, not the accusations.  And then after that, please tell me why you support McCain.  You have stated quite clearly why you are against Obama.  But what positions of McCain are you for?  Be specific.

      {"commentId":3855282,"threadId":"406747","contentId":"2064241","authorDomain":"kahaire"}
        #14.3 - Mon Nov 3, 2008 4:01 PM EST
        {"commentId":3917808,"authorDomain":"politicalcenter"}

        Given that you have not read my articles, how would you know that I cite nothing?

        {"commentId":3917808,"threadId":"406747","contentId":"2064241","authorDomain":"politicalcenter"}
          #14.4 - Wed Nov 5, 2008 4:23 PM EST
          {"commentId":3927586,"authorDomain":"kahaire"}

          Just because I have not commented on your articles does not mean I haven't read them.  Now, granted, I have not read all of them, but I did read several before posting the above comment.  I still haven't seen any confirmed lies, just accusations.  And you still haven't said what positions that cause you support McCain.  In fact, your latest article stated that you basically were voting for McCain only because there was a woman on the ticket.  That is a sexist reason to vote for the ticket - every bit as sexist as you accused the Dem party leadership of being.

          {"commentId":3927586,"threadId":"406747","contentId":"2064241","authorDomain":"kahaire"}
            #14.5 - Wed Nov 5, 2008 10:04 PM EST
            Reply
            {"commentId":3834938,"authorDomain":"politicalcenter"}

            I have to correct one statement above, which was said before I read an article in the October 2007 issue of Vanity Fair about Stephen Colbert.  A message in that article is too important to leave unsaid, and to provide it as a comment.  Thus, another article today.  So it goes.

            {"commentId":3834938,"threadId":"406747","contentId":"2064241","authorDomain":"politicalcenter"}
            • 1 vote
            Reply#15 - Sun Nov 2, 2008 12:48 PM EST
            {"commentId":3835076,"authorDomain":"DirkM"}

            So you are going to rush out another article today to make sure that a message from an article in Vanity Fair (of all the important media outlets - sheesh) from a year ago (such timeliness) about Steven Colbert (a comedian) gets addressed before this election?  Wow, you really are losing it.  I know McCain's camp is desperate, but this is getting pitiful.

            {"commentId":3835076,"threadId":"406747","contentId":"2064241","authorDomain":"DirkM"}
            • 2 votes
            #15.1 - Sun Nov 2, 2008 1:01 PM EST
            {"commentId":3835479,"authorDomain":"politicalcenter"}

            Dirk - What about a substantive comment on ACORN fraud, as shown by the facts in the article above?

            {"commentId":3835479,"threadId":"406747","contentId":"2064241","authorDomain":"politicalcenter"}
              #15.2 - Sun Nov 2, 2008 1:39 PM EST
              {"commentId":3835670,"authorDomain":"DirkM"}

              Okay, if you wish.  Let's discuss your MISREPRESENTATION of the facts.  You say:

              ACORN, an organization that is being sued under the Ohio Racketeering Influenced and Corrupt Practices Act as an illegal organization acting fraudulently with our votes in order to get the man who pays them and who is paid back through votes for him.

              stating that ACORN is being accused of doing something fraudulent "with our votes" while the complaint you quote alleges something very different:

              a scheme to obtain, prepare and file fraudulent voter registrations

              Registrations are not votes, PC.  You play fast and loose with the facts as you try to paint Obama as a promoter of voter fraud.  Thus, your entire argument begins with a complete misrepresentation of the supposed "facts."  And please remember, as any real lawyer knows, allegations in a complaint are not "facts."  They are allegations.  They are often exaggerated and false.  They are proven untrue more often than they are proven true.  They do not become "facts" until a jury finds that they are, indeed, proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

              And please provide support for your contention that Obama somehow pays ACORN for votes.  It certainly isn't anywhere in your article or the complaint that you quoted.  That is a ludicrous statement.  Another one of your many exaggerations and misrepresentations to try to paint Obama in a negative light.  You completely ignore the fact that McCain has supported ACORN in the past, despite the fact that there are pictures and votes to prove it.

              I could copy the defendant's response to the complaint and claim that those were the facts, but that would be just as disingenuous as your own efforts at misrepresentation.  Instead, I will just highlight your obvious attempt to distort the truth.

              I love how you try to equate a few faulty registrations (which don't equate to votes) with voter fraud, but then condemn the serious problem of republican voter suppression as a "myth."  What a joke!  You are about as far toward the "Center" as Ann Coulter, and just as honest.

              {"commentId":3835670,"threadId":"406747","contentId":"2064241","authorDomain":"DirkM"}
              • 6 votes
              #15.3 - Sun Nov 2, 2008 1:59 PM EST
              {"commentId":3839567,"authorDomain":"thecivicvoice"}

              It's worth noting that ACORN must turn in all registrations, even if they know they're phony. That is the law. I'd love to see someone check and see if those registrations, which turned out to be phony, have in fact been flagged by ACORN. My guess is yes.

              {"commentId":3839567,"threadId":"406747","contentId":"2064241","authorDomain":"thecivicvoice"}
              • 2 votes
              #15.4 - Sun Nov 2, 2008 7:58 PM EST
              {"commentId":3843437,"authorDomain":"politicalcenter"}

              Ok, in addition to writing more I will go back on one more thing.  Responding to Dirk.

              The fact is that people have gone back on "registrations."  The fact that these are called out is one thing that could help this election.  The fact that the fraud was known and continued is another.

              Voter fraud includes voter registration.  You claim a difference, as has the Democratic machine for some time.  There is no difference.  Voter registration fraud may be only covered by state law.  But that does not make it legal or any less fraudlent.

              Voter fraud is more difficult to prove because the Democrats have made it so.  They have successfully resisted photo IDs, claiming without proof that requiring an ID "disenfranchises" voters.  Nonsense.  They have supported felons illegally voting because it helps their cause, making constant excuses for why the vote must be counted rapidly.  They resist most mechanisms that could avoid fraud, and their spokespersons like Alan Colmes prefer "voter suppression" over "voter fraud" claiming the former is more important.

              This latest defense of fraud is that this is only "registration."  Nonsense.  And the fact that the registrations have to be turned in depends on state laws, which are not consistent state by state.

              What we have is constant misinformation and disinformation by Obama supporters reaching fever pitch when we all should be lamenting the fraud caused by buying votes.  You like buying votes, in Chicago and Philadelphia.  You like buying votes by offering money to voters in the name of "tax relief."  And you like the use of the media which perhaps I missed in years past because of my view that the media were professionals.

              If the media were professionals, they are not now.  They are news suppressors.  Like the fact that Obama's aunt was present and with Obama in 2004, apparently the year she was deported.  Believe a liar unlike any in history?  Feel comfortable with your niceties about ACORN and its good deeds when fraud is proven?

              I leave that to you who feel the law is unimportant, and that you have the only truth in this election.  A truer guage of totalitarianism in action has rarely been seen in this country.

              Free?  We will see if Obama gets a chance to implement his national police force.  Will you be marching with Obama-supporters when the police knock at my door and arrest me for daring to speak my views?

              {"commentId":3843437,"threadId":"406747","contentId":"2064241","authorDomain":"politicalcenter"}
              • 1 vote
              #15.5 - Mon Nov 3, 2008 6:22 AM EST
              {"commentId":3857450,"authorDomain":"DirkM"}

              I would respond, PC, but you have said nothing worthy of response.  You still haven't shown what any of this has to do with the Obama campaign.  You still refuse to admit that you misstated the facts.  You are simply wrong and refuse to admit it.  This is nothing new.  Just another loony tirade by PC.

              {"commentId":3857450,"threadId":"406747","contentId":"2064241","authorDomain":"DirkM"}
                #15.6 - Mon Nov 3, 2008 5:32 PM EST
                Reply
                {"commentId":3836026,"authorDomain":"terencebolger"}

                I have been annoying a lot of people lately. I’ve been called ignorant, racist, and a hate monger. I’ve been told that I’m resistant to change and a particularly mean spirited apparatchik told me to “enjoy my new surroundings come Jan 20th”.
                My crime, of course, is not so much in my supporting John McCain, but in not supporting Barack Obama. It seems I’m unreasonable for wanting a good explanation for Obama’s association with a terrorist-turned-professor, an America-hating pastor, and a former mouth-piece of Yasser Arafat, among others. If I can’t get caught up in all the excitement, I must be a bigot!
                I’m not a racist, and I’m not a hate monger. I just want my country left intact. I’d also like left-wingers to be careful in the way they throw around these terms. If any of these smart mouths ever actually encountered a real racist or hate monger, I assure you that they’d be too busy filling their pants to call him any names. A real racist is a truly nasty and evil piece of work, usually found in bunches.
                I’m not at all resistant to change, but the use of the word bothers me when it’s not accompanied by specifics. Nobody really knows what either candidate’s tax plan is going to look like until Congress has had a chance to swine it up, after all. One thing is clear: raising taxes on the “rich” (however that is defined dollar-wise) means taxing the segment of society that makes the most investment and provides most of the jobs in the private sector. All taxing them is going to do is reduce investment and reduce the number of jobs available. We, as a nation, already had this discussion in 1980. Reaganomics, AKA trickle-down economics, AKA voodoo economics works. Ask anybody that remembers the double-digit inflation of the Carter administration and how it dropped off virtually overnight once Reagan took the helm. I wish Mr. McCain would make this point once in a while.
                As far as the “new surroundings” comment goes, all I can say is: enjoy it while it lasts! Should Mr. Obama get elected, he’d better be careful not to let Pelosi & Reid get too carried away with their left wing antics. We’re in for a wild ride if this Obama-Pelosi-Reid government begins unrestrained liberal lunacy. The controversy over the “Fairness Doctrine” alone will likely cause a lot of turbulence, but the big trouble will come from the runaway inflation and soaring unemployment caused by their grand scale tax-and-spend policies.
                Once the American people realize what they’ve done, and whom they’ve elected, they will begin to take corrective action. The recoil in 2012 is bound to be shattering. Mr. Obama and his team are well advised to heed the words of Abraham Lincoln:


                “You can fool all of the people some of the time, and some of the people all of the time, but you cannot fool all of the people all of the time.”

                Don’t forget to vote.

                 

                {"commentId":3836026,"threadId":"406747","contentId":"2064241","authorDomain":"terencebolger"}
                  Reply#16 - Sun Nov 2, 2008 2:34 PM EST
                  {"commentId":3840304,"authorDomain":"kahaire"}

                  1) Obama has repeatedly and consistently said he is working for the middle class.  Not for one racial or political group.  All his plans are aimed at helping lower and middle class Americans, as he feels that helping us is the best way to help the overall economy, because we are the majority of the people.  Reagan, Bush 1 and Bush 2 have tried trickle down economics.  I'd say it's been pretty well proven it doesn't work.  Clinton re-focused on the middle class, balanced the budget, and as a result, the 1990s are the best economic times we've had in a long time, maybe ever.

                  2) The way you get out of a major recession or depression, particularly in a service based economy like ours, is to get people to spend money.  Consumers spend so companies will produce, companies who produce will keep their current employees and hire more.  More people with jobs = more people with disposable income.  This is the cycle of a good economy.  You break the cycle, you break the economy.  The New Deal was a program designed to create jobs to restart this cycle.  That's what Obama has talked about doing, though probably not on as large a scale as FDR.  This plan may be expensive, but in the long run will save our economy, not destroy it.

                  3) People's religious views should be off limits.  You want Wright?  Fine, let's talk about Palin and the pastor who advocates witch hunting.

                  4) Ayers did some horrible things 40 years ago.  Obama has said he finds those things offensive.  But the work that Ayers has done these last 40 years should count for something too.  Obama has been very open on the extent of his relationship with Ayers.  They live in the same neighborhood.  They were on two education committees together, with both Republicans and Democrats on these committees.  One of these committees was the Annenberg Foundation committee - the Annenbergs are very conservative Republicans.  That is the entire extent of the relationship.  How is he supposed to prove a relationship that didn't exist?  And by the way, Ayers was never convicted of anything.  You want to talk about associations?  Let's talk about John McCain and the Keating 5.  Charles Keating, at least, is a convicted felon.  McCain himself was censured by the Senate for ethical violations.

                  5) ACORN is the one who reported the false registration applications.  The only fraud that has been proven thus far is that ACORN was victimized by fraud on the part of employees who did not do the work they were being paid to do.  ACORN, as noted above, is required by law to submit all registration applications.  They split the applications into 3 pile:  good applications, applications they have been unable to verify, and bad applications (and these applications are clearly marked).

                  6) Voter fraud is not the same as voter registration fraud.  Both are a problem, though voter fraud is arguably worse.  ACORN is not guilty of voter fraud.  The investigation should be into voter registration fraud.  But if you don't want bad applications, then don't require ACORN to submit them.

                  7) Voter suppression has been a problem in past elections, and continues to be one.  The Democrats are fighting back early this year.  There have been attempts in many swing states to get people who should be legally able to vote off of the voter rolls (these states include Florida, Colorado, and Ohio, to name a few).  This IS a problem.

                  8) The problem with No Match laws is that the databases were not intended to be used in this way.  They are also susceptible to data entry errors, and grammar differences (like whether there is a period after the middle initial or not, whether I use my middle name or middle initial, etc.).  Requiring an ID is discriminatory in a sense - the areas that are requiring them are highly Democratic areas, and tend to be in areas where there is mass transit (so drivers' licenses are not required), or people are so poor that they cannot afford the ID.  I don't have a problem with requiring photo ID providing that a few conditions are met: 

                  • That the rule is announced far enough in advance so that people can be notified they need IDs and have time to procure them.
                  • Make state IDs free so that poor people are not financially burdened in trying to get an ID.

                  9) Obama has not been rich for the last decade.  He and Michelle both went to college and law school on scholarships and student loans. He and Michelle only finished paying off their student loans in 2004 after he became well known and his book started selling.  Until then, they had trouble making ends meat, just like a lot of the rest of us.  Speaking of rich, Cindy McCain is worth at least $100 million dollars.  The McCain's own something like 9 houses and 13 cars.  So if being rich is a disqualification, why doesn't this disqualify McCain for you?

                  10) Students shouldn't be told in school who is the better candidate.  But there is nothing wrong with using an election year to teach politics and government in general, so long as it is not a partisan education.  There is also nothing wrong with having them research candidates backgrounds and positions and compare the differences - again, with no inflection on which view is better.  I have to note that the candidate who had 4000 children bused to a rally last week was McCain.  It seems to me this argument of yours goes against McCain more than Obama.

                  11) You claim the media is liberally biased.  Please name the biased tv stations that are liberally biased.  Fox News has been a conservative news station for years.  MSNBC now has two liberal commentators, which balances Fox.  CNN, ABC, CBS try to be more impartial.  There are liberal newspapers, and more conservative ones.  There are liberal news sites and conservative news sites on the Internet.  And they try very hard to keep their press coverage of the candidates equal.

                  12) You complain that Obama has no financial background.  Neither does McCain.  But during the financial crisis, Obama surrounded himself with financial experts and made sure he understood what was going on before he made any statements.  Then he came out with one position on the bailout and stuck with it.  McCain did not do this.  He has made no noticeable effort to talk to experts and understand the situation.

                  13) Finally, you complain that Obama has not been specific in his positions.  It's kind of hard to be specific and detailed in 30 second commercials and 2 minute debate answers.  However, he has a very detailed plan on the internet at http://www.barackobama.com/issues .  You can read on specific issues, or download his Blueprint for Change.  As for his record, his record in the US Senate and Illinois State Senate are readily availble on the Internet.  I invite you to look them up.  Look up McCain's record too.

                  {"commentId":3840304,"threadId":"406747","contentId":"2064241","authorDomain":"kahaire"}
                  • 2 votes
                  Reply#17 - Sun Nov 2, 2008 9:04 PM EST
                  {"commentId":3840416,"authorDomain":"kahaire"}

                  I forgot to mention, Obama provided his birth certificate to be validated, which it was.  He was born in Hawaii.

                  {"commentId":3840416,"threadId":"406747","contentId":"2064241","authorDomain":"kahaire"}
                  • 1 vote
                  #17.1 - Sun Nov 2, 2008 9:14 PM EST
                  {"commentId":3843587,"authorDomain":"politicalcenter"}

                  The pastor who dealt with witches was a black from Africa.  You think we should ensure that people do not know other theories?  Perhaps you are against creationism in schools, so our children are not exposed to religious dogma, but support the fact that our children in grade school are being politically indoctrinated so that I am forced to say and do things I hate since I have no choice.

                  I do not want to have to correct statements about Obama that are incorrect.  About him living in Kansas.  About him being brought up by a single mother and his grandparents.  What about his father and stepfather?  Ignored.

                  In the end, your search for the truth is an attempt to find equality and propriety where there is none.

                  If you have followed what has happened in this election, there should be no question about bias.  There also should be no question but that Fox News is the most neutral station now, having abandoned their views of the past and reporting far more fairly and extensively about what is happening today and what happened in the past.

                  If you had told me in January 2008 that I would say such a thing, I would have told you that you were out of your mind.  No more. 

                  You think that the attacks against Palin were justified?  Where would you stop?  With Fox News' Alan Colmes who claimed Palin's last child was injured by her working?  With so many who claim she should be at home with her Down's Syndrome baby?

                  These are things I thought my party candidate and his supporters were incapable of doing.  There is no excuse for these attacks, and no defense for the lies of Obama and "Unfit for Publication."  These lies are essential character points that shine far more brightly than his claims of being the man for the job.  The make him ineligible for the job.  And a danger to our system of government.

                  While many laud Reagan, I do not.  I have read about Reagan's plan to appoint people who would take over the country if attacked and he had been killed in ways illegal under our Constitution.  A man who felt he could violate law in order to make freedom ring.  A man whose watch should have been vilified and would have been without his propaganda machinery.  I am sickened with his name on our national airport.

                  But I have survived and will survive an Obama presidency I suspect, God willing.  But I do have more doubts than at any time in history.  I know nothing of Obama's national police force, but cringe when it is mentioned.  And I know the power of the presidency, and worry that such a man will do a lot to hurt our country if he gets into its almost dicatorial position without any opposition.

                  We will see promised changes.  The problem is that no one understands the promises, and Obama has stuck in at various places things that remain unquestioned.  How dare our media be so biased that they could not ask a question about drug use, could not objectively review Corsi's book, and could instead distort the facts to get their man elected.  How dare they do so for reasons that do not involve the best for our country.

                  {"commentId":3843587,"threadId":"406747","contentId":"2064241","authorDomain":"politicalcenter"}
                  • 1 vote
                  #17.2 - Mon Nov 3, 2008 6:51 AM EST
                  {"commentId":3855588,"authorDomain":"kahaire"}

                  Fox News is certainly not objective or fair - they are about as far right as you can get.  CNN is, in my view, the closest to objective news we have.  I personally, find the BBC and the Economist to have far more comprehensive and non-biased news coverage.  The news has failed in recent history to fully cover the news.  But this started years ago when they were terrified of speaking out against Bush.  This failure to cover the news fully has benefited both parties, not just the Dems.

                  I think it's perfectly fair to dissect Palin's record and policy positions, and the fact that she is totally unqualified.  I don't think personal attacks of any kind are ok.  I was attempting to point out that it's hypocritical to say it's ok to attack one person's religious activities and that it's not ok to attack another's.

                  And I think you are entirely wrong about Obama being remotely like a dictator, and it's completely inexcusable to compare him to Hitler or Nazis.  Bush has done more to trample our Constitutional rights and expand the power of the executive branch than anyone in history.  You could actually make a case for him wanting to move the country toward a dictatorship, and at least that case would be based on facts.  But no one has done so, to the best of my knowledge, because it would not be a fair or accurate comparison.  So quit the name calling, and deal in facts and positions.

                  {"commentId":3855588,"threadId":"406747","contentId":"2064241","authorDomain":"kahaire"}
                  • 1 vote
                  #17.3 - Mon Nov 3, 2008 4:14 PM EST
                  {"commentId":3917853,"authorDomain":"politicalcenter"}

                  The last review by a neutral group showed Fox News as by far the most neutral.  Try them out again.  You will be shocked at the balance, unlike in 2007 and before.

                  {"commentId":3917853,"threadId":"406747","contentId":"2064241","authorDomain":"politicalcenter"}
                    #17.4 - Wed Nov 5, 2008 4:24 PM EST
                    {"commentId":3920595,"authorDomain":"DirkM"}

                    What "neutral group?"  BS.  Where is your cite?  It should be easy enough to link to if it really exists.  Fox news is the most conservatively biased media outlet on Television.

                    {"commentId":3920595,"threadId":"406747","contentId":"2064241","authorDomain":"DirkM"}
                      #17.5 - Wed Nov 5, 2008 5:45 PM EST
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